Some things you take too much for granted. Like who did not think there'd always be an interesting drinking place in the cranky old building once famously occupied by The Tearooms des Artistes, at 697 Wandsworth Road, London SW8?
Yesterday, walking back past the junction with Silverthorne Road and North Street, I see there are
estate agent's boards all over the big brash pub-club on the corner, latterly the Artesian Well. Not surprised or even sad that place has gone, but unnerved to see that it is being sold without any requirement to keep it as a place of refreshment.
Yesterday, walking back past the junction with Silverthorne Road and North Street, I see there are
This old building, said to be partly a 16th century barn, is a jewel of the Wandsworth Road. Home to the much-loved Tearooms des Artistes until 2006, then the much less interesting Lost Society bar and restaurant, the building is once again empty. What next? Photo: Ewan Munro |
But then, you see similar signs up on its neighbour, which in recent years has been a rather overcooked and expensive restaurant-bar-party place and sometimes theatre calling itself Lost Society. Big steel shutters over the windows, no messing here. On these boards they state they might be interested in restaurant proposals.
You can only imagine that any restaurant opening here in 2015 will be a couple a galaxies away in culture from the famously eccentric Tearooms which survived and even thrived here through most of the 1980s and 90s.
It really was the strangest place, and only now does the absurdity of having such a gem on one's doorstep, and hardly ever visiting it, hit you hard in the gut.
Once, long before I lived in the area, a friend invited me to meet at what she said was a crazy and rather beautiful place near ILEA's Batttersea TV centre. I was living in Dalston at the time (1982 or so) so it was long cycle ride, but worth the effort: the Tearooms des Artistes on Wandsworth Road, about midway between Vauxhall and Clapham Junction, was even then a rare survivor of a genuine late-60s style alternative meeting place space. Part bar, part cheap veggie restaurant, part art-gallery, nightclub, performance space - a veritable mini-arts lab for the shrinking bohemian populations of SWs 8 and 4 and 11. Somewhere you could sit and read and talk most of the day, or just find a dark corner to hide in.
Occupying what felt like farmyard buildings (and it did apparently incorporate much of a 16th century barn and -according to some accounts - slaughterhouse), with low-ceilinged rooms and passageways going off in directions, plus a garden area if you were adventurous, creaking floorboards and furniture, it seemed , sourced from skips across all 35 boroughs.
We met there at about 4pm and we were hungry. The chef that day, a young woman with blonde dreadlocks, showed us the choices: one dish. A huge aluminium tray filled with the most delicious vegetarian moussaka I had tasted, before or since. We had several large tumblers of rough red wine and piles of heavy hippy-style bread with it. I can't remember the cost, but I do remember she a had some trouble working out our bill and sort of shrugged and there was change from a fiver. OK it was the early 1980s, but even then, this was ridiculously cheap.
What I also remember clearly was the background music - actually more foreground, especially when she cranked up the volume on The Fall's Repetition. As a sort of house in-joke, I think, she played this track twice, with a bit of Miles in between.
I had clearly found my spiritual bolt-hole - so why, when I moved into a flat less than a quarter mile from the Tearooms did I not become an habitué or fixture there? I wish I could explain my own stupidity as a 30-something cut-price yuppie. I always recommended the place and kept my eye on the listings mags, where more and more often you'd see the Tearooms' club nights starred up to the hilt.
I guess I already felt too old and drab to go there any more. The next visit I remember was in 1986, when I left a dreary trade magazine job. I was asked where I'd like my leaving do, and as many of the staff lived in the SW area, this seemed an obvious choice. So it was that the full staff of this mag, 12 or so of us including its thrusting new editor, sat around creaking tables in one of the upper rooms, draining litre flagons of wine and consuming more slabs of delicious vegetarian lasagne. You wondered if the floor would hold.
This bearded editor was clearly much more used to fine dining at expense account hotel restaurants, but he looked quite cheerful when the final bill came in. We left just as some DJ was setting up and a new younger clientele was arriving.
By all accounts the Tearooms flourished in the E-fuelled clubbing boom of the late 80s-early 90s, becoming famous as a place to chill down at after a night at one of the more frenetic music barns of a Sunday morning. By morning, I mean 5am onwards - it was on the map as one of the few places that was open at this time. Hardened clubbers kept going right through the day, and it was in this milieu that some big-name djs - notably Rob Da Bank - cut their teeth.
His weekly Sunday Best slot on the Wandsworth Road was the little seed out of which grew his worlwide dj-ing empire and the Bestival festival on the Isle of Wight. Slightly bigger crowds, same basic ideas.
All I can remember is on some summer sundays, lying in bed and hearing weird and beguiling mixtures of house, disco, psychedelia, new wave, jazz, prog rock and world music drifting over from the Tearooms garden direction. Sometimes the sounds mingled with raves being held at the squatted Lease-Lend Cottage up on Hannington road.
If anyone reads this who was there, or has any other memories of this lovely place, it would be great to hear from you.
At some point in the early 2000s, the Tearooms finally went belly-up, but after a while - in 2006, I am told - it was thoroughly tarted-up and re-opened as Lost Society.
The new place attempted to keep the arty bohemian spirit going, but in a much more lavish, way. You can see some photos of the interior as it was on the website of interior designer Lee Broom, from 2006.
It had chnaged, of course it had, everything had changed. But it did still put on some good music nights, as well as setting up a theatre spot. The Reggae Philharmonic were playing gigs there in recent years. But clearly rents had soared and the emphasis went more and more onto pricey food, and party nights for well-heeled.
It was no longer a place for misfits. It had a rather nice fit with the rich kids of a wide swathe of south west London, thank you very much.
It still had a clubby atmosphere, but now it was more of the OK yah genre, or so it seemed to grumpy old fools like me. It all just seemed a wee bit too snotty for some of us old ex-punks, rare groovers, acid-house ravers and undead freak-out-o-philes.
Good god you'd even see stretch limos parked up along poor old Wandsworth Road, although they were even more likely to be dropping people off at the Artesian Well next door - a rather grim meat-market for the well-off youth of the Surrey fringes. That too is now closed.
You can only imagine that any restaurant opening here in 2015 will be a couple a galaxies away in culture from the famously eccentric Tearooms which survived and even thrived here through most of the 1980s and 90s.
It really was the strangest place, and only now does the absurdity of having such a gem on one's doorstep, and hardly ever visiting it, hit you hard in the gut.
Once, long before I lived in the area, a friend invited me to meet at what she said was a crazy and rather beautiful place near ILEA's Batttersea TV centre. I was living in Dalston at the time (1982 or so) so it was long cycle ride, but worth the effort: the Tearooms des Artistes on Wandsworth Road, about midway between Vauxhall and Clapham Junction, was even then a rare survivor of a genuine late-60s style alternative meeting place space. Part bar, part cheap veggie restaurant, part art-gallery, nightclub, performance space - a veritable mini-arts lab for the shrinking bohemian populations of SWs 8 and 4 and 11. Somewhere you could sit and read and talk most of the day, or just find a dark corner to hide in.
Occupying what felt like farmyard buildings (and it did apparently incorporate much of a 16th century barn and -according to some accounts - slaughterhouse), with low-ceilinged rooms and passageways going off in directions, plus a garden area if you were adventurous, creaking floorboards and furniture, it seemed , sourced from skips across all 35 boroughs.
Want to bring some joyful bohemia back to Clapham? Put on your sunday best, visit your bank manager, then ring this number! |
What I also remember clearly was the background music - actually more foreground, especially when she cranked up the volume on The Fall's Repetition. As a sort of house in-joke, I think, she played this track twice, with a bit of Miles in between.
I had clearly found my spiritual bolt-hole - so why, when I moved into a flat less than a quarter mile from the Tearooms did I not become an habitué or fixture there? I wish I could explain my own stupidity as a 30-something cut-price yuppie. I always recommended the place and kept my eye on the listings mags, where more and more often you'd see the Tearooms' club nights starred up to the hilt.
I guess I already felt too old and drab to go there any more. The next visit I remember was in 1986, when I left a dreary trade magazine job. I was asked where I'd like my leaving do, and as many of the staff lived in the SW area, this seemed an obvious choice. So it was that the full staff of this mag, 12 or so of us including its thrusting new editor, sat around creaking tables in one of the upper rooms, draining litre flagons of wine and consuming more slabs of delicious vegetarian lasagne. You wondered if the floor would hold.
This bearded editor was clearly much more used to fine dining at expense account hotel restaurants, but he looked quite cheerful when the final bill came in. We left just as some DJ was setting up and a new younger clientele was arriving.
By all accounts the Tearooms flourished in the E-fuelled clubbing boom of the late 80s-early 90s, becoming famous as a place to chill down at after a night at one of the more frenetic music barns of a Sunday morning. By morning, I mean 5am onwards - it was on the map as one of the few places that was open at this time. Hardened clubbers kept going right through the day, and it was in this milieu that some big-name djs - notably Rob Da Bank - cut their teeth.
His weekly Sunday Best slot on the Wandsworth Road was the little seed out of which grew his worlwide dj-ing empire and the Bestival festival on the Isle of Wight. Slightly bigger crowds, same basic ideas.
All I can remember is on some summer sundays, lying in bed and hearing weird and beguiling mixtures of house, disco, psychedelia, new wave, jazz, prog rock and world music drifting over from the Tearooms garden direction. Sometimes the sounds mingled with raves being held at the squatted Lease-Lend Cottage up on Hannington road.
If anyone reads this who was there, or has any other memories of this lovely place, it would be great to hear from you.
At some point in the early 2000s, the Tearooms finally went belly-up, but after a while - in 2006, I am told - it was thoroughly tarted-up and re-opened as Lost Society.
The new place attempted to keep the arty bohemian spirit going, but in a much more lavish, way. You can see some photos of the interior as it was on the website of interior designer Lee Broom, from 2006.
It had chnaged, of course it had, everything had changed. But it did still put on some good music nights, as well as setting up a theatre spot. The Reggae Philharmonic were playing gigs there in recent years. But clearly rents had soared and the emphasis went more and more onto pricey food, and party nights for well-heeled.
It was no longer a place for misfits. It had a rather nice fit with the rich kids of a wide swathe of south west London, thank you very much.
It still had a clubby atmosphere, but now it was more of the OK yah genre, or so it seemed to grumpy old fools like me. It all just seemed a wee bit too snotty for some of us old ex-punks, rare groovers, acid-house ravers and undead freak-out-o-philes.
Good god you'd even see stretch limos parked up along poor old Wandsworth Road, although they were even more likely to be dropping people off at the Artesian Well next door - a rather grim meat-market for the well-off youth of the Surrey fringes. That too is now closed.
A search for the history of the Tearooms has not so far turned up very much of interest, apart from this review by Serena Mackesy from the Independent in June 1994 (so it was still going then). She described it as "a delightfully eccentric bar-restaurant in a former slaughterhouse (for a while holes in the walls where the blood used to run out remained open to the air) on the corner of North Street, and serve very palatable vegetarian food and lashings of plonk".
Adding: "They also provide a weekend service to insomniacs by opening (for a pounds 2 entrance fee) for breakfast, board games and wacky ambience from 5am on Saturday and Sunday mornings. Close to Clapham Common."
Adding: "They also provide a weekend service to insomniacs by opening (for a pounds 2 entrance fee) for breakfast, board games and wacky ambience from 5am on Saturday and Sunday mornings. Close to Clapham Common."
Oh, please let's get back to some of that wacky ambience, for pity's sake!
Hi Bill - stumbled across your blog whilst trying to remember the URL for the Tearooms website (which I'd made years ago) to test in the amazing https://web.archive.org/ Wayback Machine - here's the text of the History page
ReplyDelete"The main building is a two storey barn dating back to the sixteenth century. It appears on one of the earliest known maps of Clapham and formed part of Claphampton Manor Estate. Although the barn has been rebuilt several times over the years the structural beams are original.
The subterranean River Falcon flowed directly beneath and was a source of water for the surrounding orchards and numerous artesian wells including the red bricked oyster beds which were discovered under the courtyard in recent times.
It is known that a banquet was held at the Manor House for Queen Elizabeth I and her courtiers including her personal astrologer and alchemist John Dean. Oysters were served at the banquet and guests may have walked through the orchards to view the water features and oyster beds.
An adjoining three storey Victorian frontage was added in 1887 which was a butchery and abattoir until the Second World War.
Since then the buildings have been used as a motorcycle showroom and garage, a tyre depot and more recently an antique emporium "called Ageless". The building is said to be haunted by the ghost of Rose Devereaux, a flower seller who died in tragic circumstances at the turn of the century.
This ancient barn and former antiques warehouse on the edge of Clapham old town, has been home to the Tea Rooms des Artistes bar: cafe: restaurant - since 1982. The Tea Rooms des Artistes was established in 1982 and aspires to be 'all things to all people'."
I was the manager there for quite a chunk of its funkier epoc - also know quite a bit about its protege Fungus Mungus - they don't make 'em like that any more!! Get in touch if you'd like any more info
all the best
Baz
Hello Baz, this is incredibly interesting stuff. Thanks for sparing the time to comment, and sorry to take so long to reply. This blog is dormant at the moment, but I am hoping to revive it when things improve. Most of what you say is new to me - the River Falcon? That maybe gave the name of Falcon road, down in Battersea...the oyster beds? I am fired up by all this info. I pass this place often and it's just been left as it was. It amazes me the heritage lot - you know, National Trust etc...are not queuing up to "save" it.
DeleteI'm stuck in a coronavirus isolation situation right now but would love to learn more from you when things improve...keep well!
When the original owner Reece and founding father inherited the place it was in its original guise as an antiques/junk shop and basically he moved a few things out to make space and voilà! instant bohemian hangout! - he was actually though quite an innovator - his "pay what you think is fair" policy worked well at first but as the place became more popular with a wider audience had to be reigned in somewhat.😜 Reece was too much of a lovely dreamer (I dislike the 'New Age' moniker) to navigate the world of money,VAT ect. and also probably didn't have whatever it takes to have meaningful conversations with the suits at Inland Revenue. After its glorious opening period it was bought out by a dedicated group of 4 regular 'Artistes' who ran it along similar lines whilst managing to keep it going as a viable business. The place certainly had a special vibe - Jackie "The White Witch of Brixton used to convene her coven there very much interested I suppose in the ley lines which apparently converge on the site (underground River Falcon?) When I first started going, Marc Bolan's pink Bentley was permanently parked on the terrace in front (before it was sold as part of the bail out I guess) If and when you need more stuff do get in touch - David the last owner (he'd bought out the other 3 over time) is a buddy and a mine of information surrounding the Tearooms and its environs.
ReplyDeleteHope you get well soon and the best of luck with your blogs going forward
all the best
Baz
Correction - there were 3 'Artistes' who took over from Reece, Janey David and Mick
DeleteBTW do you know about the amazing Wayback Machine - its a history of websites I found the Tea Rooms here
ReplyDeletehttps://web.archive.org/web/20051023230145/http://www.tearoomsdesartistes.com/gallery.html
ha ha how I laughed when I saw it! 😂
ReplyDelete...well it was the first ever website I'd attempted
Wow, this is all fabulous stuff, thanks again! You make me think someone should write a book about this amazing place. Maybe you! I'll certainly be interested in updating this on the blog. Nice pix too, think most of them date from after my last visit there - it looks a lot snazzier, especially the roof terrace bit! A while back I also heard from a former Tearooms performer, the Jazz Poet (do you remember him?)....tried to get in touch with him but never heard back. I'd also like to find out who the current owners are and what they're thinking - it's been shut for many years now, with live-in Guardians i think...I am stuck here for the duration but as soon as we'r e allowed out I'll have a go at writing more and will be in touch....a pic of the pink Bentley would be fun...anyway, thanks again, Baz, stay safe etc, Bill :)
ReplyDeleteI used to live in Queenstown Road in the early 90s and used to go to the Tearooms quite often. Hazy memories now, seem to remember Death cigarettes, the veggie food, bands upstairs and all round great vibes!
ReplyDeleteHi 20thCenturyBoy - I was working there back then so our paths would've definitely crossed. Gotta fess up to trying those fags - they haven't worked yet though. T'was indeed a good vibe place and a great place to work too.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteremoved previous post - didn't know emojis wouldn't work ;-)
ReplyDeleteHi Baz are you Barry as in Barry and Rachel? I’m trying to hook up with people from the tearooms to maybe open a Facebook page if nothing else. I don’t if you remember me, I used to work with Stafford
ReplyDeleteHi Cyd - yeah it’s us R+B and of course we remember you - we loved the TeaRooms epoch too - happy to swap stories x
ReplyDeleteHi I used to live in the block of flats next to the Post Office sorting depot on Venn Street - the Tea Rooms were one of my all time fav drinking & eating spots back in the day - after going to the Mambo Inn at the Loughborough Hotel Brixton. Indeed first place I took my now wife 26 years ago!! @hatdandy #Nellythehat
ReplyDeleteHey Nelly 26 years ago? I probably served you and your missus! Yeah the Mambo Inn was big on my list too - did you ever make it to any of the parties in the arches at Valencia Place?
ReplyDeleteHi Barry. Long time no see. What happened to everybody? Kevin, Richard, henry. Course we remember Cyd and Stafford. You went to st matthews church in the basement. Where is David? Still East Grinstead? when is the reunion?
DeletePeter and Maria
Hi guys - yep super long time indeed - Rachel and I are living in southern Spain now - I have seen David, Richard, Lizzie and Henry and have been in touch with Janey but haven't seen Kevin for a couple of years - he's living down on the banks of the Thames I believe. A reunion you you say? What a fabulous idea! Let's send that thought out there and see what happens.x
DeleteHi All, a reunion would be fun before we all go , one by one. Hi Cyd how are you? And where is Gabriel these days? It would be great to see everyone again. Atleast have a Clapham drink at the POW or Tim Bobbin. Anyone up for it? Simon
ReplyDeleteEmail alertsallon@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteI think there are plenty of who would enjoy a reunion - I've sent the link out to this blog to a few key players 👍🏽
Delete*plenty of peeps even ;-)
DeleteHi this is Helen and I used to visit the Tearooms, I am in touch with Henry, Morgan, Kevin, Nick and was in touch with Cary and Martin. I have photos and paraphernalia somewhere. I was also good friends with Rhys… as much as you could be.
ReplyDeleteHello Cary here. Omg this gave me a shock to see my name here… wow sooo much to remember.well … are you still there???
DeleteHi Helen - I started going to Tearooms just after Rhys handed it over to the new regime although he used to come in from time to time I didn't get to know him. You and I probably crossed paths around that time - I think I remember a 'Helen' but I can't be sure. Would be great if you could dig out some of your paraphernalia!
ReplyDeleteHello Bill, I stumbled across your blog and was very delighted to read that you were a fan, like me, of the sadly lost Tearooms Des Artistes. I lived around the corner in Turret Grove for a while in 87-88 and then later on Wandsworth Common and the Tearooms were my favourite place up until
ReplyDeleteI left London in 94. As you say it had a very special and unique atmosphere
and was a fantastic place to take friends for something truly out of the ordinary. It had the vibe of something from decades earlier and, as its name suggested, something a little Parisian in London. I still think of the many happy afternoons and evenings spent there with fondness, it somehow fomented good conversation and a feeling of being in the right place at the right time. It is sadly missed.
Sorry, thought my name would appear, I'm Mike (author of previous comment)
ReplyDeleteThanks Mike! It's great to hear from you, I get the sense of a large Tearooms diaspora, all with greaat memories of this unique place. The building is still there, getting more dilapidated every day. The threatened redevelopment is still expected to happen, but when is anyones guess. I will attempt to find out more when i have some time to spare!
DeleteA lot of talk of a reunion! It sounds a good idea if it's possible. The only pub I frequent in the area these days is Bread & Roses on Clapham Manor St, which sticks to its founding principles, so far as is poss these days....but if you do get together and decide a date/location, do let me know, i'd love to be there as a friendly rapporteur.....x Bill
ReplyDeleteI worked as a cook at the Tearooms from 1989-91 (I think?!) Ona, Fiona, Sue, Jillythefish, we were the kitchen crew. Stafford behind the bar and.... can't really remember any more names. Janey was a fab boss. Nags Head was the pub next door. Great to read the comments...
ReplyDeleteNice idea Bill though the tearooms diaspora is by now pretty far flung so I reckon a reunion would probably be tricky but definitely worth a try - I’ll put the word out to some of the peeps that I’m still in touch with
ReplyDeleteBill the reunion idea seems to be gaining a bit of traction drop me a mail at this temporary address👇🏼fugues_coterie0y@icloud.com
ReplyDeleteHi all .
ReplyDeleteI worked at TDA from 86-91 from the time Reese Morgan owned it to when he sold it to Janie Evers David Atwater and Mike Johnston .
It was started with the proceeds of the sale of a collection of Martin wear .
Reese used to get furniture fittings from auctions and house sales from all over the country .
As soon as I first went to eat there I wanted to work there. .
I am in touch with loads of ex staff and would love to have a reunion at my arch in Brixton . It would be amazing to see everyone again .
It’s sad the place is going .
Henry sounds like a mighty fine propersition - have any dates in mind? I know Janey is not available between April and September.
ReplyDeleteVisited the tearooms regularly in the early 80s, wonderful place.
ReplyDeleteI remember Henry behind the bar..think Ive even got a photo somewhere of him. .Martin sadly died last month. It was all another era that has left an almost eerie melancholy for me..a time where we all shared the magic and bohemian free spirit..where it felt anything could happen. I met Martin there performing his jazz poetry..Suicide Sam, Rhys and Tony , the antiques. The Hendrix, the pink Rolls Royce, Mary in the kitchen, Andy , Henry behind the bar, Big Mike,the psycologist Denis and his wild shinanigans...Cary here..
ReplyDeleteHi Cary give me a call sometime it would be great to catch up
Deletehi all - sad that the actual TeaRooms is no more, slightly bemused as to how easily such a historic building can just dissapear into the quagmire of gentrification and housing speculation but I guess it is what London has become famous for. Anyway I know that it has heightened interest in the idea of a 'Super-Reunion'. Henry is offering his arch as a venue and Christmas time has been suggested so get the word out and lets see what we can come up with
ReplyDeleteThat entry above was me - hadn't logged in - get that old Tearooms des Artists energy going peeps ;-)
ReplyDeleteThanks CAry, and thnaks Baz again, great ocmments but yes, i also just discovered that the entire building has been obliterated. I was already feeling gutted by the dismal change of spirit in this area and this was like a coup de effing grace, a kick in the guts to see such a magical place turned to a head of mud and rubble. I have been trying to write a proper post but i'm too angry and down to write. I love the idea of meeting as many of you as possible, even though I was never a true regular like all you guys! Thanks & keep on keeping on etc Bill
ReplyDeleteYes Bill - it sucks but the spirit of the TeaRooms cannot be crushed by bulldozers and lives on in some form or other in all of us who its amazing fun loving energy touched. There will almost definitely be a 'Super Reunion' in December - we'll post details here.
ReplyDeleteThanks again for your blog Bill, helping to keep that flame burning.
ah crap I'm anonymous again
ReplyDelete....alias Baz🤪
ReplyDeleteHello from two early 80s Tea Rooms regulars. Thanks for the memories! We remember the pink Bentley well, plus the pony-tailed guy pictured on the website (was that Reese/Rhys?). I celebrated my birthday there with a big party of friends circa 1989. I expect you've seen this: https://lavender-hill.uk/2023/07/07/all-change-as-the-old-tearoom-des-artistes-on-wandsworth-road-is-reduced-to-rubble/#:~:text=The%20Tearooms%20des%20Artistes%E2%80%A6%20was,8%20and%204%20and%2011 Gill & Chris
ReplyDeleteHey Gill and Chris what is the website where you saw Reese? The Tearooms website didn't have his photo (you can visit the website on the way back machine https://web.archive.org/web/20030604135251/http://tearoomsdesartistes.com/history.html)
ReplyDeleteJust seen your reply, Baz, a few months on. An old boyfriend has just set me straight - it was his birthday we celebrated there, not mine! The picture I thought was of Reese/Rhys was the one in the top row at https://web.archive.org/web/20051023230145/http://www.tearoomsdesartistes.com/gallery.html - my mistake!
ReplyDeleteI went to the Tea Rooms in the mid 80s and then mid nineties to the Twighlight Zone breakfast club which opened at 5am!
ReplyDeleteHappy days. Jon x
Hi Jon . I am having an exhibition with some of the tea rooms rubble preserved in wax next month June in the lovely gallery in Sydenham. .
DeleteHi thanks, great to hear about your exhibition. Could you post details (place, times etc) here so that any of us who are in the area can drop in? Would be intrigued to see this rubble! (Rubble was all that was left of the old Tearooms last time I peeked into the building site. It seems they're building a bland carbon copy of the original design, but of course it will be luxury apartments, not a place of communal pleasure.) Thanks, Bill (ps sorry I don't know your name, for some reason most people appear as "anonymous" on comments.)
Delete